Discussion on the best approach to revive SE

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Hetulik
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Discussion on the best approach to revive SE

Post by Hetulik »

I wanted to start a thread for folks to discuss the best way to revive this game. And what SE 2.0 circa 2013 needs to look like to be successful.

I found SE to be a groundbreaking game in 1997 when the first open betas occurred. 4 week persistent galaxies. A GUI client which gave more opportunity for interaction, and gave a significantly better playing experience than games that were just played in the browser. (most multiplayer online games were just browser games at the time) SE won my heart in 1997 when i first found the game, the friends i made and the lively competition kept the game very interesting.

But the year is now 2013. Alot has changed in the gaming community. As a plus MANY more people are online so the user base is potentially much larger. Social media and multiple sites dedicated to games gives a great opportunity to get the word out on this game.

But the market is also very different. A majority of users expect fancy graphics (i prefer playability over graphics, but think i'm the minority). On the market are a number of massive MMOs. That seems like the biggest change since SE's hayday. For example EVE Online is just a crazy example of what game designers can accomplish now a days. 40k people online in a persistent universe. I've played EVE a bit, but i must say i SE still has the best balance in reasonably straightforward rules (not too complex), but is enormously fun. Also something Caleb said last night i thought was good... One of the differentiating factors for SE is 4 week wars versus a persistent universe. I think that's a good thing.

So what do folks think about some of the following questions in terms of the best strategy to revive the game:
1) What does SE need to look like in 2013 based on the changes in the last 15 years to be successful?
1a) What is the right balance of any changes to the game, but to still remain true to the legacy of SE. (Some improvements to the graphics and move it to beta, or more significant changes?)
2) When is the best time to really get the word out on this game? (it's probably too early yet, but when is the right time?)
2a) What is the best approach to get the word out at attract the core players back, and especially new players? (i'm guessing we'd want to post on multiple game forums, as a fyi my two main sources of sci-fi gaming news are the following sites http://www.spacesector.com/ and http://www.spacegamejunkie.com/) What other sites are there out there, and what other ways do we have to get the word out? And if players check out the game, how do we keep them?

Also in the gaming world of 2013 i see many games move forward through sites like kickstarter. One (or a few) sharp programmers, have an idea, and publicize it. They can get the minimal funding they need and make it successful if they themselves don't have a skill in a specific area (for example graphics or music). Build a community to get feedback, test the game, and make it successful. Two good examples of kickstarter projects i think are FTL and and Stardrive.

FTL kickstarter site: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/644 ... than-light (Website: http://www.ftlgame.com/)
Stardrive Kickstarter site: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/131 ... for-the-pc (Website: http://www.stardrivegame.com/)

These are both single player games, but check out the amazing activity they eventually generated on their forums. In FTL's case it was 2 guys, in Stardrive's case it is one guy, but could that approach also work for this? Are there funding needs? Maybe this is more a question of Caleb's vision of the game.

Caleb: will you plan to start charging for the game after beta? Do you need funding for more powerful servers? Do you feel you might not have expertise in a certain area to move forward with the game? Perhaps i should ask first, do you have the time/energy and interest to make this the size of the open beta SE (or even bigger!)? Or is this just a side project in your free time? Any answer is fine, my hats off to you already just for accomplishing all you have. I'm not advocating any significant changes to the game you have right here, i like SE just the way i remember it in 1997 (but i may be the minority and a dinosaur?), but at the same time i'm interested to know your own personal vision for the game that you've recreated, and general plan to move forward... And based on your vision I am interested to know how I and others might be able to help contribute to make your vision and this game successful.

Just wanted to get a thread going to get folks thoughts on some of these topics and generate some discussion.

Hetulik
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Cossid
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Re: Discussion on the best approach to revive SE

Post by Cossid »

Sorry, been trying to respond to this, but I've been a bit distracted. I'll respond tomorrow for sure (I have half of it typed up).
--Cossid AKA Caleb
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Re: Discussion on the best approach to revive SE

Post by Cossid »

First, let me apologize for the incredibly late response, I meant to respond much earlier, got about half-way through my response, and then forgot to return to it. That being said...

Thank you for this post, it is a very good idea to be discussing these issues.
1) What does SE need to look like in 2013 based on the changes in the last 15 years to be successful?
There is no doubt it needs better graphics. What I have now is completely intended to be temporary. The layout will also need to be improved to have more focus on the display of the ship. I have plans for alternate UI layouts already, and it shouldn't be overly difficult to accomplish. Further, eventually voice communications will need to be added. That of course will not replace text change, but aid it.
1a) What is the right balance of any changes to the game, but to still remain true to the legacy of SE. (Some improvements to the graphics and move it to beta, or more significant changes?)
There are a number of things to be added to the game for breaking it away from Stellar Emperor, including new ship classes, more customizable ships, and new divisions such as Research & Design as were discussed in early SEMW3 chats. Balance, however, is the paramount here. I will not create a game that caters to players who only play for a handful of minutes at a time, nor should it favor those who can spend excessive hours each day. If the game doesn't remain balanced, it really is no fun.
2a) What is the best approach to get the word out at attract the core players back, and especially new players?
This, unfortunately, is where I will always struggle. I'm not terribly good or proficient in marketing. I encourage players to do all they can to spread the word, however, in the early phases, the more important part is keeping people in the game, so that new players have someone to converse with. If we have no base, it is impossible to expand when it comes to multiplayer games. After we have a base, documentation/training needs to be the priority.
Also in the gaming world of 2013 i see many games move forward through sites like kickstarter.
Sadly, Kickstarter doesn't really lend itself well to MMOs, as MMOs require more than a one-time commitment. Kickstarter works excellent for single player games, and is a great marketing tool, but there is a reason you haven't seen much there from MMOs. Granted, I don't see SE as being that massive on a singular (Galaxy) scale. Part of the balance is galaxy size vs galaxy settings. I would only be willing to let a galaxy get so large before it should be decided to start splitting galaxies up. But back on topic, the mentality of MMOs is quite different from that of the standard single player or short-term multiplayer games. It's kind of unfortunate because the communities that build from them are truly amazing. I would love to find a way to do something like this, but really need more ideas on how to make it work first.
Are there funding needs?
At the moment, the answer to that is no. I may need to research what the media (art, sounds) costs will be, but I have a feeling initially they will be within the budget I am already prepared to cover.
will you plan to start charging for the game after beta?
This is a very open-ended question. I would love to eventually convert this from a hobby to a profession, but my primary focus is to create a fun game others want to play. I will let the players be the judge of this. For the moment, it is not a concern to me.
Do you need funding for more powerful servers?
Right now, we wouldn't run into any problems with less than 200 players online at any given time, and I have plans to make that considerably better already (switching to a more bandwidth efficient networking model), after which that will go closer to 1000. Beyond that, the networking bill will double to hold 10x the capacity (hardware does not appear to be an issue at this point from my estimated opinion).
Do you feel you might not have expertise in a certain area to move forward with the game?
I am a programmer, currently trying to run the entire project. My obvious weakness is art & media. This is a field I can easily find professionals willing to work under direction for my needs. The other areas where I lack experience is in marketing and documentation. These are areas where the community will need to provide some help. As the community grows, the marketing also grows. Some of the better documentation will likely come from the community in the forum of video tutorials (I'll keep working on the text documentation on the website of course).
erhaps i should ask first, do you have the time/energy and interest to make this the size of the open beta SE (or even bigger!)? Or is this just a side project in your free time? Any answer is fine, my hats off to you already just for accomplishing all you have.
I would like to think that I do. Currently this is sitting in my 'hobby' project state, but I consider it a very passionate hobby (I love this game!) I don't consider my time to be an issue as of yet.
I'm not advocating any significant changes to the game you have right here, i like SE just the way i remember it in 1997 (but i may be the minority and a dinosaur?), but at the same time i'm interested to know your own personal vision for the game that you've recreated, and general plan to move forward...
I generally prefer the game as it was in the end as well, but I am not short-sighted enough to believe that will please everybody. I'm trying to keep my programming of the game open-ended so that both can be accomplished from a single project. I believe strongly in the fact that each individual galaxy that goes up could be a completely different game, while running from the same base. Nearly everything I add or change in the game I try to make an option that can be changed quickly. I trust players will have good feedback on how to make wars better, and that could change frequently.
And based on your vision I am interested to know how I and others might be able to help contribute to make your vision and this game successful.
My biggest requests at the moment are to just simply be around or active whenever possible (an empty multiplayer game is difficult to grow when new players show up and there is nothing there for them to do). Aside from that, help build the community. The biggest key there is to get back as many old players as possible. They were what made the game wonderful, and are what will make it continue to be a fantastic experience. Sadly, this is now an individual game, we don't have the draw of other games that Gamestorm had. I have maintained this forum for the last several years to help guide those still searching. Hopefully more of them will continue to return, and hopefully they bring their old friends with them as well.


All of that being said, the feedback was been very good so far, and the game appears to be quite stable. I hope this means we see players continue to come back as we build the first, and most crucial part of the community that can return us to a state of having a fun game to play!
--Cossid AKA Caleb
Hetulik
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Re: Discussion on the best approach to revive SE

Post by Hetulik »

Thanks Caleb for your very thoughtful reply.

I'm a bit short on time right now to respond at any length - but it was very interesting to read your responses. I'm interested what the rest of the community thinks as well.

Het
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Re: Discussion on the best approach to revive SE

Post by Yoda »

Caleb's excellent efforts have revived SE. Technical issues are beyond me - I leave that to much more skilled and talented individuals.

Pay to play is not an issue - used to pay Gamestorm solely to play SE, would pay again.

To quote from Caleb's post"
"Balance, however, is the paramount here. I will not create a game that caters to players who only play for a handful of minutes at a time, nor should it favor those who can spend excessive hours each day. If the game doesn't remain balanced, it really is no fun."

One of the beauties of SE is it is balanced and can be played by both types of players, and all those in-between, without shutting anyone out. There are times when all you have is a few minutes to do a quick PM (planetary management) - other instances you have the time to scout, loot and pillage at will, or defend your empire. And this can change from one 4 week war to another.

In my humble opinion, SE's revival depends on maintaining SE's strengths - an elegant and intuitive menu system both in space and PM - playability in space - the camaraderie of channel 1 - team play - individual play - the challenge of PM - it is just a great engrossing game, simple and complex at the same time. As I age, I find reviewing and adjusting and fine tuning PM has actually helps my mental acuity. The thrill of discovery of a 99+hab/high metal planet unsettled on a Thursday evening is still exhilarating.

I hope to support revival efforts as Caleb has requested by "simply being around or active whenever possible," and urge others to do the same. Yoda
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