Hi All,
I'm posting this because I'm very concerned where I see the revival of SE headed. As of Beta war 7 there are just not enough players to make a viable/playable experience and more people are leaving the game every month.
Here are the statistics for # of unique players in galaxies after the no mule rule was instituted:
Beta 3: 29 players (25 players scoring > 1 point)
Beta 4: 28 players (21 players scoring > 1 point)
Beta 5: 36 players (21 players scoring > 1 point)
Beta 6: 20 players (18 players scoring > 1 point)
Beta 7: 15 players (11 players scoring > 1 point)
This is an unsustainable downward trend. I honestly don't think any war where you don't have two teams with at least 6 to 8 players active per team is viable. 4 vs 4 just doesn't work because of the power of the TRA and the impact of a single teammate not being online. Most folks with families just can't be active enough to maintain that pace without burning out. So 6 to 8 players per team at least makes it ok for a few people miss a day in the game and doesn't too negatively impact your team.
I'd like to suggest we can't keep running wars right after another. I think there needs to be some coordination before a war begins. Every war a few people will make a strong burst of activity, but then burn out by the end of it and take a few wars off. There is enough of a community here to have a strong 8 vs 8 game (perhaps even a 10 vs 10 could be possible) but with the continuously running wars this never occurs. As a community if we want to have an active war, I feel team rosters should be considered before the new war begins. Perhaps a war shouldn't start immediately after the last war to give folks time to get ready.
I'm not sure if some of those ideas make sense, but something needs to change because Beta war 7 is a mess. There's a solid team of 4 who wants to play actively but there is no one who is able to fight them. Then another half of the galaxy has limited time to play but is still PMing. This is absolutely not viable, no one is happy, and folks seem to have been leaving the game for multiple reasons the last few wars now. So with the players we still have I feel we need to start coordinating wars based on folks schedules. Reach out to folks to get them back in the game to see if we can get critical mass for at least a 10 vs 10 fight. People being online makes you want to come into the game more. Also it removes the stress of making it feel like you're letting your team down not being online if you cant because of other commitments.
*** But more importantly I think our community (and Caleb) needs to seriously assess the 'state of the game' before it completely dies out. What is our short, mid, and long term plans for the game? It would be nice to develop a timetable and plan. I feel the game is VERY playable. I'm very impressed with Caleb's work, and feel it is a better product than the original game with some of Caleb's small enhancements and tweaks. The primary thing I've heard Caleb mention is a lack of documentation for new players. Seneca and I were speaking and there wasn't documentation for the first game years ago and it still worked out fine. Documentation and articles were created organically for the old SE. In 2014 I really like the wiki type technology where a community can all contribute to the documentation. I'm strongly suspecting if the active community got together we can volunteer and divide and conquer on tasks from a documentation perspective. What else is missing before we can move forward and let the world know about this game? Caleb also seemed to have some concerns regarding the artwork aspect.
I posted a thread in early 2013 that didn't get many replies titled "Discussion on the best approach to revive SE" where I brought up some questions regarding the long term plan for SE: (I suggest folks take a quick read)
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=109
Some particular points I wrote that I will reiterate: (some of my comments may be dated since they were written during alpha testing)
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So what do folks think about some of the following questions in terms of the best strategy to revive the game:
1) What does SE need to look like in 2013 based on the changes in the last 15 years to be successful?
1a) What is the right balance of any changes to the game, but to still remain true to the legacy of SE. (Some improvements to the graphics and move it to beta, or more significant changes?)
2) When is the best time to really get the word out on this game?
2a) What is the best approach to get the word out at attract the core players back, and especially new players? (I'm guessing we'd want to post on multiple game forums, as a fyi my two main sources of sci-fi gaming news are the following sites http://www.spacesector.com/ and http://www.spacegamejunkie.com/) What other sites are there out there, and what other ways do we have to get the word out? And if players check out the game, how do we keep them?
Also in the gaming world of 2013 I see many games move forward through sites like kickstarter. One (or a few) sharp programmers, have an idea, and publicize it. They can get the minimal funding they need and make it successful if they themselves don't have a skill in a specific area (for example graphics or music). Build a community to get feedback, test the game, and make it successful. Two good examples of kickstarter projects I think are FTL and Stardrive.
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There must be dozens of places where information about the game could be shared so people can 'find' the game. Once more people (not just old players) find the game it can reach critical mass when it can be fun all the time for all types of players. And word about the game will spread by word of mouth and grow even faster. But at the same time I understand we might not be ready for people to find it. And I know Caleb has a job and only limited time to work on the game. But I fear without a game plan this game will slowly fade into obscurity as the communities excitement wanes and starts having some negative experiences in game.
Something we all have in common is a love of SE, and a desire to see it succeed and be revived. I just wanted to get folks talking and thinking about some of these things before its too late and too many people have left the game.
Sorry if this got too long winded. I love this game and sincerely wish to see it succeed. I know it can succeed if we work together!
Regards,
Hetulik
My Concerns & the State of the Game
Re: My Concerns & the State of the Game
Nice statement.... some draft wars might help as well... and I will say it again... Caleb stay OUT of the conflicts when two even teams getting going.. alot of players left or taking a break because of it.. you may be a honest broker.. However anyone new player with a right mind is going to question any time commitment to a game that the game op may or may not have control over who may win or lose. Again My opinon along with others.. it,s the appearance.. your game but Het comments show the trend.. a slow death... MW4 experiencing the same thing because Dave got involved and busted a team huller, pretending to be a NOOB before he was caught.
- Cossid
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Re: My Concerns & the State of the Game
To be fair, the player counts could hinder on many things, like how active the war is on opening weekend, or like the last two, being shorter, there is just less time for players to register, or how active the previous war was (burn out).
I personally will not advertise the game until there is at least some documentation for each major aspect of the game. If other players want to advertise, they absolutely can, but there must be players around willing to help new players. I'm not terribly concerned with the graphic state of the game, as it doesn't really change the game play all that much. I will try my best this weekend to focus on documentation on the website, for at least the basics.
I don't like the idea of not having a war running, as I don't want potential returners to come back to nothing and have to wait, they will likely forget to come back.
I am still looking into implementing new forum software, and when I do that, I will be looking into a wiki as well. I need to find something I can integrate into a global authentication system across all the sites.
I personally will not advertise the game until there is at least some documentation for each major aspect of the game. If other players want to advertise, they absolutely can, but there must be players around willing to help new players. I'm not terribly concerned with the graphic state of the game, as it doesn't really change the game play all that much. I will try my best this weekend to focus on documentation on the website, for at least the basics.
I don't like the idea of not having a war running, as I don't want potential returners to come back to nothing and have to wait, they will likely forget to come back.
I am still looking into implementing new forum software, and when I do that, I will be looking into a wiki as well. I need to find something I can integrate into a global authentication system across all the sites.
--Cossid AKA Caleb
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Re: My Concerns & the State of the Game
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I never hide my intentions to play, and when I play, I play fair, there are currently no special game accounts. You may notice that when I play patches slow down, not because I don't work on the game (separately from live instances), but because I don't want to have to log into the server to check on anything that isn't critical.setalon wrote:Nice statement.... some draft wars might help as well... and I will say it again... Caleb stay OUT of the conflicts when two even teams getting going.. alot of players left or taking a break because of it.. you may be a honest broker.. However anyone new player with a right mind is going to question any time commitment to a game that the game op may or may not have control over who may win or lose. Again My opinon along with others.. it,s the appearance.. your game but Het comments show the trend.. a slow death... MW4 experiencing the same thing because Dave got involved and busted a team huller, pretending to be a NOOB before he was caught.
That being said, I have no intention of actively flying any near-term wars until I make further progress on documentation, getting a new forum system, and other things I mentioned in the previous post. I may randomly fly ships around, and duel occasionally upon request, but nothing serious.
--Cossid AKA Caleb
Re: My Concerns & the State of the Game
as I said.. to grow the game and I,ve said this to Dave too... if you gonna fly .fly as a Mule and not caleb so you can test features combat etc... but don,t sway a war..don,t change the outcome of a war. Perception.....not actions sometimes can be enough...
Re: My Concerns & the State of the Game
Thanks for your replies gentlemen.
Moving the conversation away from any contentious topics![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
I like the idea of a draft war. I wasn't involved in one in the old SE. Could someone explain the logistics of that to me?
Sounds like some good courses of action Caleb. What I'm reading from your post is the following. 1) finish documentation 2) new forum and wiki software. (How long do you think all this will take?)
I'm agreeable to always keeping a war open for new players. But as I said in my earlier post something needs to change so we stop getting such a small number of people in each galaxy.
Het
Moving the conversation away from any contentious topics
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
I like the idea of a draft war. I wasn't involved in one in the old SE. Could someone explain the logistics of that to me?
Sounds like some good courses of action Caleb. What I'm reading from your post is the following. 1) finish documentation 2) new forum and wiki software. (How long do you think all this will take?)
I'm agreeable to always keeping a war open for new players. But as I said in my earlier post something needs to change so we stop getting such a small number of people in each galaxy.
Het
Re: My Concerns & the State of the Game
I feel partially responsible for negatively influencing the current state of Stellar Emperor with the re-activation of PM Academy in Beta War 6, and especially again in Beta War 7. PMA seemed to stifle game activity, even though at the same time it did afford a group of players in BW6 a vehicle to play SE on a more limited basis that fit with their current RL situations and circumstances, which in my opinion is one of PM Academy's major contributions to SE.
In BW7, after seeing what occurred in BW6, PMA had no business being active - I was wrong to reform it when there was little to no competition. And, as things developed, I felt that the entire purpose for forming PMA ended up being threatened by the conditions we encountered in BW7. I apologize to the SE community for the disruption.
Therefore, will not activate PMA in Beta War 8, but will definitely participate as an independent, and happy to discuss any PM issues with anyone anytime.
Still think there is a place for a PMA type alliance (peaceful,non-aligned) in SE, but not at this juncture. Perhaps in the future, when the SE community grows and can support multiple teams again, PMA can be active again and serve its purpose and meet the needs of SE players for a "quiet" war from time to time.
I am not sure what a "draft war" is; if it is anything like high school gym class dodgeball, I was always picked last. :) Perhaps, if one is interested in forming an alliance for the next war(s), they can post to the forums and recruit teammates in that fashion.
When I think about all the alliances that used to be active in SE, I am filled with nostagia: Rev's GOM, Talon's Dominion and Fluffy Bunnies, PackFan's DSC,...my ancient records list 20 to 30+ different SE alliances that existed back in the day. Most wars had at least 10 to 12 active alliances.
I look forward to the day when SE regains the glory of its storied past.
In BW7, after seeing what occurred in BW6, PMA had no business being active - I was wrong to reform it when there was little to no competition. And, as things developed, I felt that the entire purpose for forming PMA ended up being threatened by the conditions we encountered in BW7. I apologize to the SE community for the disruption.
Therefore, will not activate PMA in Beta War 8, but will definitely participate as an independent, and happy to discuss any PM issues with anyone anytime.
Still think there is a place for a PMA type alliance (peaceful,non-aligned) in SE, but not at this juncture. Perhaps in the future, when the SE community grows and can support multiple teams again, PMA can be active again and serve its purpose and meet the needs of SE players for a "quiet" war from time to time.
I am not sure what a "draft war" is; if it is anything like high school gym class dodgeball, I was always picked last. :) Perhaps, if one is interested in forming an alliance for the next war(s), they can post to the forums and recruit teammates in that fashion.
When I think about all the alliances that used to be active in SE, I am filled with nostagia: Rev's GOM, Talon's Dominion and Fluffy Bunnies, PackFan's DSC,...my ancient records list 20 to 30+ different SE alliances that existed back in the day. Most wars had at least 10 to 12 active alliances.
I look forward to the day when SE regains the glory of its storied past.
Re: My Concerns & the State of the Game
I'm just looking forward to having a computer that can actually do something while I'm flying ... then I'll be able to put in time as well, and while I'm at it, I will give caleb a swift kick in the rear to hurry up too ![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
Re: My Concerns & the State of the Game
General state:
It's obvious that people have come back and left and are not persistently logging in at least once a month to check in. Regardless of the situations inside or outside of game which lead to the decisions, they shouldn't be judged harshly over it. If we gathered all unique players in the last 6 months or so for a big war, of course, it would be a much better (more active) war for everyone. I'm not against a DRAFT war (vote for team leaders.. and top 3/4 leaders selecting from roster pool) provided it's planned well in advance so people can clear
their minds and schedule to allow for a competitive war.
What can improve the game? Documentation is important, is already pretty good and covers a lot. My feeling the biggest thing missing is the assorted bleeps and blips from the original game - engines humming and even victory music, to me, added a lot to the experience. In regards to using the original GameStorm/Kesmai clients' IP - I understand the reluctance. The future of this game might come from allowing customization of the background/sound effects which can be served from another location as to not conflict with any direct usage of these items.
Personal state:
I could easily fly more - but I find myself conflicted. I have a large amount of free time during the week as my work is on the weekends. During this time, I find it too easy to just sit down and partake. There is so much I should be doing but having this here serves as a temptation of being a huge time waster for me and at this time during my life I should be concentrating and being active in other areas of improving my life and my health. In short, it's a personal feeling of guilt and dereliction of duty to my non-game obligations that keep me from playing heavy. The game got a bit too much love from me in the recent D!! vs. WP skirmish (Alpha War 6) which involved numerous overnight sessions and, quite literally, took all the fight out of me. I have still been trying to find the proper balance of flying time and presence for the game to satisfy both myself and everyone else who would like me to fly on their team(s). Until I can find it, I'll be staying an independent flyer and not bringing myself anywhere near any titles or competition thereof.
Like Caleb, I have plans to help with documentation and help files for the game (in particular safe-PM settings) and being online when I can to welcome new/returning users.
Where will the future take me? I don't know - but I'll stick around as long as I can.
Scott - Tafoid
It's obvious that people have come back and left and are not persistently logging in at least once a month to check in. Regardless of the situations inside or outside of game which lead to the decisions, they shouldn't be judged harshly over it. If we gathered all unique players in the last 6 months or so for a big war, of course, it would be a much better (more active) war for everyone. I'm not against a DRAFT war (vote for team leaders.. and top 3/4 leaders selecting from roster pool) provided it's planned well in advance so people can clear
their minds and schedule to allow for a competitive war.
What can improve the game? Documentation is important, is already pretty good and covers a lot. My feeling the biggest thing missing is the assorted bleeps and blips from the original game - engines humming and even victory music, to me, added a lot to the experience. In regards to using the original GameStorm/Kesmai clients' IP - I understand the reluctance. The future of this game might come from allowing customization of the background/sound effects which can be served from another location as to not conflict with any direct usage of these items.
Personal state:
I could easily fly more - but I find myself conflicted. I have a large amount of free time during the week as my work is on the weekends. During this time, I find it too easy to just sit down and partake. There is so much I should be doing but having this here serves as a temptation of being a huge time waster for me and at this time during my life I should be concentrating and being active in other areas of improving my life and my health. In short, it's a personal feeling of guilt and dereliction of duty to my non-game obligations that keep me from playing heavy. The game got a bit too much love from me in the recent D!! vs. WP skirmish (Alpha War 6) which involved numerous overnight sessions and, quite literally, took all the fight out of me. I have still been trying to find the proper balance of flying time and presence for the game to satisfy both myself and everyone else who would like me to fly on their team(s). Until I can find it, I'll be staying an independent flyer and not bringing myself anywhere near any titles or competition thereof.
Like Caleb, I have plans to help with documentation and help files for the game (in particular safe-PM settings) and being online when I can to welcome new/returning users.
Where will the future take me? I don't know - but I'll stick around as long as I can.
Scott - Tafoid
Re: My Concerns & the State of the Game
Greetings, Tafoid
Sounds like you could use a "war" as part of PM Academy sometime. PMA could most definitely benefit from your august presence, when we are hopefully able to be active again in the future. Yours respectfully, Yoda
Sounds like you could use a "war" as part of PM Academy sometime. PMA could most definitely benefit from your august presence, when we are hopefully able to be active again in the future. Yours respectfully, Yoda
Re: My Concerns & the State of the Game
Hi Caleb. Any recent updates or future plans? There was a great burst of activity a year ago but things have quieted down I see. Did I hear you were considering adding some new functionality? Just wanted to check in... still keeping an eye on the forums.
Hope you are well
Het
Hope you are well
Het
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Re: My Concerns & the State of the Game
Hi Het,
All is well here.
As for updates and future plans, I've been undecided for quite some time. Interest is currently very low, although there has been little to no marketing for quite some time. Stellar Emperor as it currently is can run indefinitely, and I will continue to maintain it at the very least. I still haven't brought myself to documenting anything to attempt to make it easier to draw new players.
My aspirations include reaching more platforms (mobile, tablet, web) as well as expanding game play a bit (R&D, customizable ships, etc), however, I'm currently leaning towards doing that under a new title, as expanding platforms will require a full client rewrite either way, and new platforms would likely require some game play changes as well.
All is well here.
As for updates and future plans, I've been undecided for quite some time. Interest is currently very low, although there has been little to no marketing for quite some time. Stellar Emperor as it currently is can run indefinitely, and I will continue to maintain it at the very least. I still haven't brought myself to documenting anything to attempt to make it easier to draw new players.
My aspirations include reaching more platforms (mobile, tablet, web) as well as expanding game play a bit (R&D, customizable ships, etc), however, I'm currently leaning towards doing that under a new title, as expanding platforms will require a full client rewrite either way, and new platforms would likely require some game play changes as well.
--Cossid AKA Caleb